<div dir="ltr">Etoys ticking is not precise enough to do music timing.<div>Ticking might be offset by other task the system is doing.<br><div>You should use the ScorePlayerMorph for music.</div></div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div>Karl</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 9:55 PM, Jeremy Landry <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:hakyoku@gmail.com" target="_blank">hakyoku@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>Maybe clicking the sequencer squares to look like this will make more sense when you play it back: </div><div><a href="https://imgur.com/a/ZHsaS" target="_blank">https://imgur.com/a/ZHsaS</a><br></div><div><br></div><div>Setting the script to tick should be obvious what the problem is: not only is the playback not timed at the same interval as the script tick-rate, but it will 'skip' sometimes and omit playback.  What you should hear is nonstop, fairly consistent drum smacks, like a drum roll.  Instead, you'll hear it roll a little, stop quickly, then start rolling again, stop quickly, and almost at random.  Does this help open up the problem?  It's not really about music here, just about timing and consistency of triggering sounds on a timer...sometimes they do sound off, sometimes they dont, sometimes they're in-time, sometimes they're not.  If you speed up the ticks per second, you can hear that 'invisible metronome' I mentioned earlier, there seems to be an 'always running' object that only looks for new sounds to play at a regular interval, if the trigger doesn't make that window, then it gets dropped seemingly...it's like it's aliasing the instructions or something...</div><div><br></div><div>Hope this helps, and I appreciate you helping looking into it!  </div><div><br></div></div><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 12:03 PM, Bob Arning <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:arning315@comcast.net" target="_blank">arning315@comcast.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
  
    
  
  <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    <p><font face="Georgia">I'm not enough of a musician to really know
        if it's behaving or not. These are drums, so it's not a
        continuous sound. When I set the script to ticking, I do hear an
        occasional glitch that my well be due to garbage collection --
        it's possible that tweaking some gc parameters might reduce
        this. Perhaps a youtube posting with the sound you are hearing
        would let me compare it to what I'm hearing.</font><br>
    </p><div><div class="m_313355801356882249h5">
    <br>
    <div class="m_313355801356882249m_-50921442851577088moz-cite-prefix">On 2/22/18 2:33 PM, Jeremy Landry
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr"><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JlCCtHLHDk" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?<wbr>v=_JlCCtHLHDk</a>
        I forgot to post this in the last message showing the more
        stable timing done with 'pure' squeak classes/methods.<br>
      </div>
      <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 11:32 AM,
          Jeremy Landry <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:hakyoku@gmail.com" target="_blank">hakyoku@gmail.com</a>></span>
          wrote:<br>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <div dir="ltr"><a href="https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nJlQ4huXcKZmTm6GADl40ZrWAEd7Kv97/view?usp=sharing" target="_blank">https://drive.google.com/file/<wbr>d/1nJlQ4huXcKZmTm6GADl40ZrWAEd<wbr>7Kv97/view?usp=sharing</a><br>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>This is a demo of the problem for ETOYS 5 (along with
                some other stuff there that shows what I've looked into,
                to some degree).  Hitting play on the scriptor, you will
                hear a sequence that has awful timing.  I don't expect
                'sample perfect', zero latency or anything spectacular,
                but it would seem that if there's timers in the system,
                everything should adhere to it, or else not be called
                timers and something like, 'when-we-get-around-to-its'. 
                This video here demonstrates that Squeak, at least, can
                do timing just fine and older versions have midi demos,
                but again, I'm using Etoys for a specific reason, so
                it's confusing me as to why the delays happen...</div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>Both sequencers are mouse interactive and playing
                with the script timer and setting blocks on/off can
                reveal this hidden metronome...maybe that IS the
                buffer?  I'm not sure...what's most puzzling is that
                sometimes it will sound right, and sometimes it
                won't...even if it wasn't correct, I'd probably be okay
                if it was consistently incorrect because I can actually
                work with consistency, so I guess if nothing else,
                that's what I'm trying to figure out how to get without
                making tile usage unavailable for a sequencer built on
                etoys tiles...</div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>Thanks for all the efforts so far...I did notice some
                changing in the timing when I checked the preference
                there but also unchecked the preference of
                stopSoundsWhenDone, just in case it was hiccuping by
                shutting down the sound stream then making a new one. 
                It didn't help, but I had forgotten about these
                preferences.</div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>  </div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
            </div>
            <div class="m_313355801356882249m_-50921442851577088HOEnZb">
              <div class="m_313355801356882249m_-50921442851577088h5">
                <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                  <div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 10:57
                    AM, Bob Arning <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:arning315@comcast.net" target="_blank">arning315@comcast.net</a>></span>
                    wrote:<br>
                    <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                      <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
                        <p><font face="Georgia">There do seem to be some
                            platform issues as to whether this will
                            really work. Some things you could do:</font></p>
                        <p><font face="Georgia">- check the value of the
                            Preference for #soundQuickStart -- make it
                            true if not already</font></p>
                        <p><font face="Georgia">- put some code into the
                            SoundPlayer method to tell you if quickStart
                            is being requested and if not honored, why</font><br>
                        </p>
                        <div>
                          <div class="m_313355801356882249m_-50921442851577088m_-1939768682591439961h5"> <br>
                            <div class="m_313355801356882249m_-50921442851577088m_-1939768682591439961m_4959563591284099764moz-cite-prefix">On
                              2/22/18 1:22 PM, Jeremy Landry wrote:<br>
                            </div>
                            <blockquote type="cite">
                              <div dir="ltr">Thanks for the crossover. 
                                I am subscribed, but generally shy away
                                from posting there as it seems out of my
                                league and my main interest is in Etoys
                                since, well, again, leagues and all
                                that.  I know just enough ST to break
                                things, not build them!  :)
                                <div><br>
                                </div>
                                <div>So using the code from this message
                                  from Bob Arning:</div>
                                <div> <b>Bob Arning</b><span><span> </span></span><a href="mailto:squeak-dev%40lists.squeakfoundation.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5Bsqueak-dev%5D%20%5Bsqueakland%5D%20Question%20about%20Audio%20Buffer/Timing&In-Reply-To=%3C269cdd30-7c77-6cab-22aa-591eee543b21%40comcast.net%3E" title="[squeak-dev] [squeakland]
                                    Question about Audio Buffer/Timing" target="_blank">arning315 at
                                    comcast.net<span> </span></a><br>
                                  <i>Thu Feb 22 15:49:07 UTC 2018</i><span></span>
                                  <ul>
                                    <li>Previous message:<span> </span><a href="http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2018-February/197505.html" target="_blank">[squeak-dev]
                                        [squeakland] Question about
                                        Audio Buffer/Timing</a></li>
                                    <li>Next message:<span> </span><a href="http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2018-February/197509.html" target="_blank">[squeak-dev]
                                        [squeakland] Question about
                                        Audio Buffer/Timing</a></li>
                                    <li><b>Messages sorted by:</b><span> </span><a href="http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2018-February/date.html#197508" target="_blank">[ date ]</a><span> </span><a href="http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2018-February/thread.html#197508" target="_blank">[ thread
                                        ]</a><span> </span><a href="http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2018-February/subject.html#197508" target="_blank">[ subject
                                        ]</a><span> </span><a href="http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2018-February/author.html#197508" target="_blank">[ author
                                        ]</a></li>
                                  </ul>
                                  <hr>
                                  <pre style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">SoundPlayer class gives a clue:

resumePlaying: aSound quickStart: quickStart
     "Start playing the given sound without resetting it; it will resume 
playing from where it last stopped. If quickStart is true, then try to 
start playing the given sound immediately."
</pre>
                                  <br class="m_313355801356882249m_-50921442851577088m_-1939768682591439961m_4959563591284099764gmail-Apple-interchange-newline">
                                  Just looking at it and taking a guess,
                                  it doesn't seem to be *quite* the
                                  thing I was looking for.  I was
                                  thinking there's a method/class
                                  variable with a value that could be
                                  changed to affect the system, rather
                                  than 'poking in' every thing I want to
                                  play when I want to play it
                                  individually because the ultimate
                                  effect is that Etoys PLAYSOUND:SOUND
                                  tile will work as normal and this
                                  seems that it would have to be used
                                  instead of the tiles...I have no idea
                                  if this is possible, but I'll also dig
                                  around the class browser in Etoys,
                                  maybe I'll stumble into something, but
                                  so far, as I noted, I only found the
                                  sound-buffer and sample rates, not the
                                  imposed delay method that I remember
                                  reading about.  I remember the
                                  reasoning it was put in was to prevent
                                  accidental playing of sounds inside of
                                  a single-frame repeat-tile...i.e. a
                                  repeat tile with any value other than
                                  1 and inside of it having a
                                  playsound:sound tile would overload
                                  the speakers and make nasty noises
                                  because so many things are playing on
                                  top of each other. I actually WANT
                                  this.  Based on how sound plays now,
                                  you can hear an 'invisible' metronome
                                  that makes sure all sounds are
                                  separated and equally spaced apart and
                                  in the case of repeat tiles, only
                                  seems to accept the last sound as
                                  valid/playable.</div>
                                <div><br>
                                </div>
                                <div>Thanks for the help so far!  I'm
                                  not expecting a solution because I
                                  don't know if one exists, but my
                                  thought is 'if it was done, it can be
                                  undone'...and just looking at how to
                                  undo it!  :p  </div>
                                <div><br>
                                </div>
                                <div><br>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                              <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                                <div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Feb 22,
                                  2018 at 9:59 AM, David T. Lewis <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:lewis@mail.msen.com" target="_blank">lewis@mail.msen.com</a>></span>
                                  wrote:<br>
                                  <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">There is
                                    some follow up discussion happening
                                    on the squeak-dev list. I don't<br>
                                    know if it helps, but you can read
                                    the posts here if you are not
                                    subscribed to<br>
                                    that list:<br>
                                    <br>
                                    <a href="http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2018-February/197508.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.squeakfoundation.<wbr>org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2018-<wbr>February/197508.html</a><br>
                                    <br>
                                    HTH,<br>
                                    Dave<br>
                                    <div class="m_313355801356882249m_-50921442851577088m_-1939768682591439961m_4959563591284099764HOEnZb">
                                      <div class="m_313355801356882249m_-50921442851577088m_-1939768682591439961m_4959563591284099764h5"><br>
                                        On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at
                                        10:27:18AM -0500, David T. Lewis
                                        wrote:<br>
                                        > Hi Jeremy,<br>
                                        ><br>
                                        > I am copying this to the
                                        squeak-dev list in case someone
                                        there can offer<br>
                                        > some guidance.<br>
                                        ><br>
                                        > Dave<br>
                                        ><br>
                                        ><br>
                                        > On Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at
                                        02:44:21PM -0800, Jeremy Landry
                                        wrote:<br>
                                        > > Hi, I made a quick
                                        audio sequencer test in Etoys
                                        and found that there's a<br>
                                        > > hidden 'timer' that
                                        limits the responsiveness of new
                                        sounds that go into<br>
                                        > > the playback buffer
                                        (terminology isn't accurate, but
                                        hopefully it makes<br>
                                        > > sense to people).<br>
                                        > ><br>
                                        > > I found the sound
                                        buffer setting, but was
                                        wondering if there's something<br>
                                        > > else that limits how
                                        fast new sounds get added to the
                                        playback stream? I<br>
                                        > > read somewhere
                                        (old-man-aphasia here) that some
                                        code was added to prevent<br>
                                        > > overloading the buffer
                                        so surely there's a snippet of
                                        code I could add to a<br>
                                        > > project to reverse
                                        this, if it's what is causing
                                        the delay?<br>
                                        > ><br>
                                        > > Thanks for any help
                                        finding the solution.<br>
                                        ><br>
                                        > >
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                                      </div>
                                    </div>
                                  </blockquote>
                                </div>
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                              <br>
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</pre>
                            </blockquote>
                            <br>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                      <br>
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                      <br>
                    </blockquote>
                  </div>
                  <br>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
        <br>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </div></div></div>

</blockquote></div><br></div>
</div></div><br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
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<br></blockquote></div><br></div>