[Squeakland] Looking for good souls

Markus Gaelli gaelli at emergent.de
Sun Apr 23 15:02:07 PDT 2006

Hi Stef,

The squeakland website and image (both the image and the image)  
currently does not fit for tool building smalltalk learners. This is  
Likewise the geeky and technical image of squeak-dev does not fit for  
education of object oriented programmers nubs.

Your tutorial in squeak 3.8 image helps here. Why should this not be  
part of the squeakland-image?
Why shouldn't we have a button in the squeakland image which beams  
the newbie over the fence into a good smalltalk teaching environment?

What I like about the french list, is that this distinction is not so  

I'd like to have one english speaking list about the use of Squeak  
for and in education, and this would include both etoys and smalltalk.
And I suggested to use squeakland for this, as there are already lots  
of good souls there, who do focus on education.
Actually I think that open minded future software engineers can learn  
a lot from the etoys paradigm.

I also made the experience that people learn Smalltalk much faster,  
when they have been introduced to EToys first.

Finally I have the feeling that the lack of technical questions/  
discussions about Smalltalk on squeakland hindered the development of  



On Apr 23, 2006, at 1:24 PM, stéphane ducasse wrote:

> markus
> I just thought that lot of people in squeakland are not really
> programmers at the low level,
> but more into using etoy. May be I'm wrong?
> Stef
> On 23 avr. 06, at 11:59, Markus Gaelli wrote:
>> On Apr 23, 2006, at 11:16 AM, francois schnell wrote:
>>>> On 23/04/06, Markus Gaelli <gaelli at emergent.de> wrote:
>>>> I also think it is important not to end up with a plethora of  
>>>> lists,
>>>> so my suggestion is to reuse squeakland for also posing and
>>>> answering
>>>> basic smalltalk questions.
>>>> - Kim, would it be ok to ask smalltalk questions on squeakland?
>>>> I think one factor of the success of the french squeak list, is  
>>>> that
>>>> it focuses on education, be it with etoys or smalltalk.
>>> I actually think it would be a bad  idea  to mix using etoys
>>> questions with finding your way in the class browser (not the same
>>> thing, not the same targeted audience).
>>> Concerning the french Squeak-list, which is a good list, if you
>>> look closely you won't see a lot people actually *learning*
>>> smalltalk : giving example of problem they have with their code,
>>> asking for help, etc.
>>> For the moment the Squeak lists reflect its community state.
>>> Apart from Squeakland  (for etoys), Squeak is  orientated
>>> research/hackers which is OK   but I believe it *needs" students/
>>> teachers/people *learning* Squeak to produce useful tools-apps
>>> (not mainly research ones)
>> Exactly. With you, Hillaire, Stef, Serge and others we have these
>> educational but still technical people in the french list - as
>> there are some willing and helpful old time squeakers like Scott,
>> Bert, Yoshiki and others in squeakland.
>> So I actually don't understand why we should not strive to get all
>> this people together who are interested in Squeak as a learning
>> platform, be it for smalltalk, etoys and the rest of the universe -
>> as long as there is some interest to keep squeakland of course.
>> I don't think we are enough to allow us to split into more and more
>> subgroups, think about the currently quite quiet lists of tweak and
>> croquet.
>> Instead we better join forces in some "squeak and learning" list,
>> and isn't that what squeakland is all about?
>> Please reply to squeakland also, there is not too much traffic on
>> it either...
>> Or maybe neither you nor Stef are registered there, which I'd find
>> a bit strange ;-)
>> Cheers,
>> Markus
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