[etoys-dev] Etoys: Etoys-Richo.103.mcz

Ricardo Moran richi.moran at gmail.com
Tue Feb 14 14:56:28 EST 2012


I've attached a new version with the following few changes:

   - I put the title back as suggested by Steve. I didn't realize the "add
   new variable" button wasn't obvious for a newcomer. Also, the title is
   different if you're adding a new variable or modifying an existing one.
   - I kept the header for the "change type" menu. I agree with Karl in
   that the menu title here adds information that is not necessary in the
   "make sound" example. However, it won't be difficult to take it out if
   that's the majority's preference. As Steve suggested, a drop down menu
   would be ideal but also more work :)
   - I renamed the menu item "change variable info..." to simply "modify
   <var>" and I took out the "decimal places" item for user slots.

As for Subbu's suggestion, I'm not sure that's a good direction. I've
always suspected of systems who try to be more intelligent than me by
inferring information based on my behavior :)

And regarding Steve's parable, I'm not sure I get the moral of the story,
but I think getting reviewed by a lot of people is good, even though I have
to see my work criticised a lot :)


On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 5:30 PM, karl ramberg <karlramberg at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 1:30 PM, Steve Thomas <sthomas1 at gosargon.com>
> wrote:
> > On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 6:41 PM, Scott Wallace
> > <scott.wallace at squeakland.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> On Feb 10, 2012, at 2:45 PM, Ricardo Moran wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi again, I've been working on the "decimal places" option and now I
> don't
> >> feel is a good idea because we would still have the "decimal places..."
> menu
> >> item in system-defined slots. I feel this wouldn't be very consistent.
> Maybe
> >> the dialog with just name & type would be good enough.
> >>
> >>
> >> Arguably yes... However, since you've already done the work to have the
> >> decimal-places element come and go in the panel, depending on the type
> >> chosen, and since its presence in the panel helps make users conscious
> of
> >> the "decimal places" feature, which they might otherwise not be aware
> of,
> >> maybe we should keep it there...
> >>
> >> In any case, this is an excellent and timely and really welcome piece of
> >> work, Richo -- yay!
> >>
> >> Any comments from Ed Team about this?
> >
> >
> > Comments :
> >
> > Richo Rocks
> > When when I click on the Type - a new window pops up, which I find
> visually
> > distracting
> >
> > Having something similar to clicking on the sound tile in a "make sound"
> > tile in a scriptor is better
> The difference is that the variable menu has a 'header'.
> I like that it tells what it is that you are supposed to do with these
> abstract entities that change what the variable means.
> The sounds menu is a little simpler because they are just sound names,
> no semantic change.
> Karl
> > A further improvement would be something  more like a drop down menu,
> where
> > the colors don't change and as you mouse over the selections they are
> > highlighted.
> >
> > I like the showing of decimal places when you select number.  Consistency
> > and minimalism are great (but not always best for new learners)
> > I would put back the title bar "Add Variable" as it is not obvious what
> the
> > downward pointing pink arrow does (ah the curse of knowledge when the
> expert
> > is trying to teach the novice)
> >
> >
> > Finally my dear Ricardo, you may wish to consider heading the advise of
> Ben
> > Franklin to Thomas Jefferson when he was drafting the Decleration of
> > Independence:
> > "I have made a rule, whenever in my power, to avoid becoming the
> draughtsman
> > of papers to be reviewed by a public body. I took my lesson from an
> incident
> > which I will relate to you. When I was a journeyman printer, one of my
> > companions, an apprentice hatter, having served out his time, was about
> to
> > open shop for himself. His first concern was to have a handsome
> signboard,
> > with a proper inscription. He composed it in these words, 'John Thompson,
> > Hatter, makes and sells hats for ready money,' with a figure of a hat
> > subjoined. But thought he would submit it to his friends for their
> > amendments. The first he showed it to thought the word 'Hatter'
> tautologous,
> > because followed by the words 'makes hats,' which showed he was a
> hatter. It
> > was struck out. The next observed that the word 'makes' might as well be
> > omitted, because his customers would not care who made the hats. If good
> and
> > to their mind, they would buy them, by whomsoever made. He struck it
> out. A
> > third said he thought the words 'for ready money' were useless, as it was
> > not the custom of the place to sell on credit. Every one who purchased
> > expected to pay. They were parted with, and the inscription now stood,
> 'John
> > Thompson sells hats.' 'Sells hats!' says the next friend. 'Why, nobody
> will
> > expect you to give them away. What then is the use of that word?' It was
> > stricken out, and 'hats' followed it, the rather as there was one
> painted on
> > the board. So the inscription was reduced ultimately to 'John Thompson,'
> > with the figure of a hat subjoined."
> >
> > Stephen
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > etoys-dev mailing list
> > etoys-dev at squeakland.org
> > http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev
> >
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