[etoys-dev] [squeakland] About Skeleton

Ricardo Moran richi.moran at gmail.com
Fri Oct 14 19:18:39 EDT 2011

On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 1:59 PM, Randy Caton <rcaton at cnu.edu> wrote:

> I like the spreadsheet that Ricardo created because it is simple and basic
> and allows I/O. It leaves more for learners to create.

I too like the fact that my spreadsheet it's really simple (although I don't
really like my implementation) but if we are thinking of including a table
like object, I'm pretty sure Skeleton is the right choice. The only
disadvantage I can see is the lack of a scroll bar to manage big amounts of
data. I'm thinking this could be solved with a ScrollPane object acting as a
playfield where you could drop big objects and use the scrollbars to move
around. I tried to do it today but I don't understand how the ScrollPane
works exactly.

> Couldn't the functions already in etoys be used in the cells? Does Skeleton
> allow plots? If so, then what about Ricardo's graphs? I'd like to see them
> in etoys also.

I don't know if Skeletong allows plots, but as Karl said, it should be
possible to build them with it. As for my graphs, IIRC there were a few
technical issues preventing them to be included, but I'll see what I can do
this weekend to fix them.


> Randy
> Randall Caton
> 41596 Bald Eagle Drive
> Bigfork, MN 56628
> 218-832-3490
> http://www.pcs.cnu.edu/~rcaton
> Sent from my iPhone
> On Oct 11, 2011, at 11:41 AM, Ricardo Moran <richi.moran at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 11:20 AM, Bert Freudenberg <<bert at freudenbergs.de>
> bert at freudenbergs.de> wrote:
>> On 11.10.2011, at 14:34, Ricardo Moran wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > The squeak list is currently discussing about a spreadsheet morph, and
>> that just reminded me about how cool is Skeleton actually. So I'm wondering
>> why it is not in Etoys? I found an old discussion stating that it could be a
>> nice extension to Etoys but the biggest issue being the slow loading of
>> external code. I have to agree with that being a problem but I think we
>> might reconsider just include it in the image as with Dr Geo.
>> >
>> > I know we already have a bloated image full of half finished projects
>> but from what I briefly tested Skeleton seems to work out of the box. And it
>> doesn't add a *huge* amount of new code. See this simple comparison with
>> DrGeo:
>> >
>> > (PackageInfo named: 'Skeleton') systemCategories size. 2
>> > (PackageInfo named: 'Skeleton') classes size. 38
>> > (PackageInfo named: 'Skeleton') methods size. 654
>> > (PackageInfo named: 'Skeleton') linesOfCode. 4765
>> >
>> > (PackageInfo named: 'DrGeoII') systemCategories size. 10
>> > (PackageInfo named: 'DrGeoII') classes size. 214
>> > (PackageInfo named: 'DrGeoII') methods size.  1863
>> > (PackageInfo named: 'DrGeoII') linesOfCode.  17154
>> >
>> > Another issue, I guess, is that if Skeleton gets included someone will
>> have to maintain it, but from what I've seen the latest version dates from
>> 2006 and it still works today. So maybe it won't be that big of an issue.
>> >
>> > Anyway, if you want to test it:
>> <http://www.languagegame.org:8080/ggame/11>
>> http://www.languagegame.org:8080/ggame/11.
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> > Richo
>> How does it compare to the data table thing you did in your GSoC project?
> My data table serves the only purpose of importing/exporting CSV files, but
> not much else, whereas Skeleton is a proper spreadsheet, it supports
> functions, and is well integrated with etoys via drag and drop of tiles.
>> Would be nice to have only one, not two table-like objects.
> I agree, but since my table is not integrated anyway, I vote for
> integrating Skeleton which is much better than what I did. And if we want
> the I/O of csv files, I could find the way of adapting Skeleton. It
> shouldn't be that difficult, I suppose.
> Cheers,
> Richo
>> - Bert -
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