[etoys-dev] Etoys developer chat log

Bert Freudenberg bert at freudenbergs.de
Mon Sep 6 16:30:36 EDT 2010

Hi all,

I've been lazy in posting chat logs, sorry about that. I did ask the Sugarlabs folks to log the etoys channel too, though, so it might appear on http://jita.sugarlabs.org/ soonish ... 

Anyway, we had a good discussion today, it helped that this Monday was a holiday in some places :)

We talked about:

* the upcoming release in general, which looks good, no blockers that are not easy to fix:
* however, we discovered some issues with the windows installer
* also, copy&paste of images

We should build a release candidate this week. That leaves us 2 weeks for testing before the actual release on Sep 27.

Full log below.

Hope to see you next Monday, at 12 noon Squeakland Time as usual:


- Bert -

<bander> hi
<jecel> hello
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<kencausey> Hi
<bertf> hi
<bertf> nice to see you all :)
<bander> holiday :-)
<CaseyR> How's the release coming?
<bertf> we're a few days away from the first release candidate
<bertf> no blockers at the moment
<CaseyR> Right on!
<bertf> bugs yes, but well :)
<CaseyR> Heh
<CaseyR> Aren't there always.
<jecel> It is a holiday in Brazil as well (tomorrow, actually) so no class for me today
<bertf> awesome. I figured someone might stop by :)
<CaseyR> I'm loose of work, too:)
<bertf> actually there are two blockers, but they are trivial to fix
<bertf> http://tracker.squeakland.org/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa?mode=hide&requestId=10540
<bertf> so no real obstacle to the release
<bander> Do you need help with any of these?
<bertf> looking ...
<saijanai_> is squekland.org server down?
<bertf> saijanai_: no, but I see only half of its contents
<bertf> http://squeakland.org/
<kencausey> Who is responsible for that site now?
<CaseyR> Looks like it's restarting to me.
<bertf> bander: http://tracker.squeakland.org/browse/SQ-779 or http://tracker.squeakland.org/browse/SQ-778 look interesting and would be nice to have fixed 
<bertf> kencausey: still Immuexa / Tim Falconer
<kencausey> ok
<bertf> bander: incidentally, does copy/pasting images work under Windows? I never checked I think
<bander> Not that I know of
<bertf> bander: I though we had the ExtendedClipboardPlugin on Windows too
<bander> It's not in http://squeakvm.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/trunk/platforms/win32/plugins/
<bander> Where would it be if not there?
<bertf> maybe I misremember. It works on Mac and Unix.
<bertf> hmm, Sophie surely supported it
<bander> Probably all FFI hacks
<kencausey> What is meant by 'copy and paste images'?  What sort of image do we mean?
<bander> Graphics
<bertf> kencausey: bitmaps
<kencausey> OK
<kencausey> I think drag and drop works on Windows
<bertf> kencausey: on the Mac I can get the halo on any object, type Cmd-C, switch apps and paste
<kencausey> ah, so images out of Squeak...
<bertf> and into, too. webbroser - copy - squeak - paste
<bander> Yes, DnD of images works fine, but not C&P
-*- bander is on a very slow connection it seems
<bertf> on unix we can even drag objects out of squeak :)
<bertf> used to work anyway, haven't checked in a while
<bertf> so I don't know about C&P on Windows, I don't see a plugin in Sophie either. maybe they used FFI
<bertf> another issues to work on would be loading fonts from file to make the image smaller, but I think it's too late for that in the release cycle
<bertf> the code is in but not used yet
<bander> Did you see my post in the trunk?
<bertf> yes, was glad to see it :)
<bertf> bander: testing the windows installer would be great too
<bertf> http://etoys.squeak.org/download/
<bertf> it's only for alpha 1 so not the latest image but maybe check if you see something odd
<bander> Will do but I can only run it on Win7; I don't have anything earlier.
<bertf> as well as the beta-to-go which includes a windows VM too
<bertf> bander: understood
<bertf> korakurider did that one, hopefully it works :)
<bertf> so the best thing if you want to help would be testing the beta
<bertf> and see if anything terrible happens ;)
<bander> I don't see an installer at http://etoys.squeak.org/download/
<bertf> the zip file with "win" in its name?
<bertf> first one
<bander> Oh, sorry. Was looking for something called "installer" :-)
<bertf> ah. but zip is okay?
<bander> I'll let you know once I downloaded it :-)
-*- bertf doesn't know zilch about windows conventions
<bertf> I did not have time yet to build a Mac installer
<bertf> and for the linux distros other people are packaging it as part of Sugar :)
<bander> bertf: The installer shouldn't be wrapped inside a zip; it should either be the .exe for the download or the .msi
<bertf> okay
<bertf> is it just ine file inside?
<bander> Yup.
<bander> EToysInstaller.exe
<bertf> I see
<bertf> capital T?
<bander> Installer shows Apache-L only?
<bander> No, lower-case t, i.e., EtoysInstaller.exe
<bertf> ah, good :)
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<bander> Seems to launch fine
<bertf> should probably show http://etoys.squeak.org/svn/trunk/Etoys/NOTICE instead?
<bander> Hm...
<bander> Every time I launch it recomputes security keys; then has some flash of "PrimitiveFailed"
<bertf> ugh, bad
<bander> Fails to create a directory
<bertf> cmd-shift-w
<bertf> go back to top project
<bander> fullPath: 	'C:\Program Files (x86)\Etoys\Resources\andreas'
<bertf> that does not look right
<bertf> should be in home dir
<bander> Looks like it's trying to write something into the installation directory
<bertf> so secure directory is not set correctly
<bander> Yes, looks like it; where is this stored?
<bertf> don't know really :(
<bertf> whereever apps store preferences?
<bertf> you might try tghe Etoys 4 installer, this should use the same dirs
<bander> In the registry? ;-)
<bertf> argh, website bad http://squeakland.org/download/
<bertf> bander: no, cache files etc
<bander> Okay, this is officially weird.
<bander> I have *both* Etoys.exe as well as Etoys.app in C:\Program Files (x86)\Etoys
<kencausey> \Documents and Settings\{user}\Application Data\?
<bander> I.e., it looks like a complete duplicate install
<bertf> FileWrite $0 "SecureDirectory=$\"%APPDATA%\etoys$\"$\r$\n"
<bertf> FileWrite $0 "SecureDirectory=$\"%USERPROFILE%\AppData\LocalLow\etoys$\"$\r$\n"
<bander> Let me try this from first principles, perhaps I had a version installed and it didn't like installing it on top of the prior version
<bertf> those two lines are in the installer script
<kencausey> LocalLow?
<bander> I don't see an Etoys.ini anywhere
<bertf> kencausey: may refer to vista security levels? I really have no idea though
<bander> Yes, it does. The location is fine.
<bander> There's just no Etoys.ini anywhere
<bertf> bander: no idea. I dimly remember some discussion a tyear a go but didn't pay attention
<bander> Yeah, the problem is clearly the missing Etoys.ini in the install.
<bertf> okay
<bander> And it doesn't like installing on top of a prior install.
<bertf> it should leave the old install alone and install to an etoys41 folder
<bertf> redirect the browser plugin to the new location of course
<bertf> but otherwise keep the old working
<bander> It did not install into etoys41; it installed into C:\Program Files (x86)\Etoys (where I already had an install)
<bertf> well, Korakurider will read the log and respond I'm sure
<bander> Then for the records: This is Win7
<bertf> yes we haven't really discussed what the behavior should be wrt the old versions
<bertf> but I think not touching the old is better
<bertf> on the mac it's going to be an "Etoys 4.1" folder
<bertf> here's the old windows7 thread  http://lists.squeakland.org/pipermail/etoys-dev/2009-March/003037.html
<-- bander (~437d16b1 at hubble.immuexa.com) has quit (Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout))
<bertf> well, thanks for testing! and thanks to everyone who came by here today :)

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