[etoys-dev] Etoys developer chat log

Bert Freudenberg bert at freudenbergs.de
Mon May 31 16:28:31 EDT 2010

Hi all,

we just had a chat, few people around today (it's a holiday in the US):

* Ricardo prefers the September release schedule
* talked mostly about camera and movies
* need replacement for the spam-ridden forums. help welcome.

Full log below, as usual. And see you next Monday, same time:


- Bert -

<Richo2> hi
<Richo2> :)
<bertf> ugh, I'm late
-*- bertf apoligizes
<bertf> apologizes, even ;)
<bertf> hi Richo2
<Richo2> hi bert
<bertf> anyone else here?
<rockyBoland> I am
<Richo2> hi rockyBoland
<rockyBoland> hi
<bertf> small group :)
<bertf> Richo2: translation stuff is starting to look good :)
<bertf> do you have an opinion abou the release schedule?
<Richo2> thanks
<Richo2> yes
<Richo2> I think I prefer the second option
<Richo2> just yesterday I added Andreas code
<Richo2> for font support
<bertf> Yes, saw that.
<Richo2> and even though his code works fine, I'm worried of introducing a lot of new bugs
<Richo2> having more time to found them and fix them is good
<bertf> yes. we first need to switch over to using that code and then give it some time for testing
<jecel> Would it be interesting to have the translation stuff in the basic Squeak? It would be nice if the GUI elements such as menus and buttons could be in local languages
<bertf> Korakurider is working on getting the subversion repo into shape
<bertf> jecel: definitely
<bertf> I also tried http://www.squeaksource.com/WebCamMorph.html
<bertf> copied the CameraPlugin from Scratch, works
<bertf> (on Mac)
<bertf> should work elsewhere too
<bertf> rockyBoland: do you have some specific issue, or do you just want to listen in?
<rockyBoland> mostly just listening in.  I am considering using etoys to build a game for teaching GCD and LCM algorithms.
--> matmo (~chatzilla at doconnel.force9.co.uk) has joined #etoys
<matmo> hi all
<Richo2> hi
<bertf> ah, matmo
<bertf> was just saying I tried WebCamMorph on Mac, works
<matmo> great :-)
<bertf> was surprised it drags in the plugin class. we don't use MC dependencies normally
<bertf> and we do not have VM classes in the Etoys image
<bertf> no VMMaker either
<bertf> there is a bug when you rotate it
<matmo> dependency removed
<bertf> and duplicating it gives odd issues too :)
<matmo> I had not thought of rotation or duplication yet but will check it out
<bertf> maybe for easier testing we should make a project with the code?
<bertf> we have some testers that are not familiar with Smalltalk tools
<matmo> what issues have you got with duplication?
<bertf> when closing one it stopped the other IIRC
<bertf> I don't think we need to support duplicating it
<matmo> projects, yes, there should be a some in a few days time (if squeakland upload works)
<bertf> I thought the problems are specific to thomas' account
<bertf> or do you have problems uploading too?
--> karlram (~51aa9a20 at skylab.immuexa.com) has joined #etoys
<matmo> IIRC I tried an upload last week and failed (will check again). Also had problems saving. Will submit reports when I've had a chance to recheck it's not something I have done or doing.
<bertf> karlram: hi 
<karlram> hi
<matmo> hi
<karlram> hi
<matmo> the "movie" morph doesn't look like it has had much looove :-)
<bertf> matmo: when more people have seen it maybe we can come up with a sensible list of tiles for it. 
<bertf> for now it seems you just threw everythin in ;)
<bertf> the movie morph is one of the abandoned demos
<matmo> sure. I've actually paired it down but any/all suggestions welcome
<bertf> not much love indeed
<bertf> well there are some unusual concepts, like the holder reference for storing frames
<bertf> (in webcammorph)
<matmo> what would you call storage for snapshots?
<matmo> album
<matmo> album?
<karlram> there is also a internal video format
<bertf> matmo: if possible, that should not be built-in
<bertf> but rather you would write a script that gets a frame and puts it in a holder
<bertf> that would be the "Etoys way"
<bertf> though the idea of using moviemorph to hold frames might be interesting
<matmo> I was thinking "convenience" and in that particular example taking multiple snapshots as fast as capturing
<karlram> it would be nice if we could get project publishing work with videos
<bertf> well, Etoys isn't really about "convenience", but about learning how stuff works ;)
<matmo> the "manual mode" gives the script writer full control
<bertf> yes. I think for a first iteration, that is all there should be
<bertf> becasue it is impossible to remove features later
<matmo> agree, I completely open to suggestions re use in learning context. I'm not in education so happily defer to others opinion
<bertf> once we know how people would like to use it we can add convenience features, as needed
<matmo> ok, so remove auto-capture?
<bertf> well, hide at least
<bertf> there are some tiles that are hidden in "etoy-friendly" mode
<bertf> but if you are okay with removing it, that would be a good option for now too
<bertf> makes code review simpler
<matmo> ok, I'll take a look
<bertf> do you have an idea about how to deal with the old cameramorph?
<bertf> karlram: publishing movies doesn't work? 
<-- karlram (~51aa9a20 at skylab.immuexa.com) has quit (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF))
<bertf> oh. we lost karl 
<matmo> re camermorph, would it siffice to remove it from Objects tool?
<bertf> Richo2: did you have anything else to chat about?
<matmo> suffice
<bertf> matmo: that's one option
<rockyBoland> This chat room is obviously about etoys development.  Is there a chat room or mailing list for etoys users?
<bertf> it could also be rewritten to use CameraPlugin
<Richo2> bertf: no, thanks
<bertf> rockyBoland: not really
<matmo> rewriting, yep, I planned to look at doing that
<bertf> rockyBoland: most etoys users apparentyl don't liek chat rooms :)
<matmo> many things, little time ;-)
<bertf> it would allow older projects to work, if those should exist
<rockyBoland> What about for people who want to develop projects using etoys?
<matmo> ok, I will bump it up the list
<bertf> rockyBoland: those are what I call "etoys users"
<jecel> rockyBoland: this is a weekly developers meeting. The rest of the time this channel is very quiet and can certainly be used for general user questions
<bertf> rockyBoland: but the better option is to write an email to the squeakland list
<rockyBoland> Will do that.  Sorry for interrupting your meeting.
<bertf> no need to apoligize :)
-*- bertf can't spell that word
<jecel> Besides the list, there were also some online forums, right? I don't know how those are doing these days
<bertf> attracting spam
<bertf> we're considering to shut them down
<bertf> replacing with google groups or yahoo groups or something like that
<jecel> Ok, then the list is certainly the best place for users
<bertf> needs to have a  list gateway and forum view and spam protection
<matmo> trying an upload to squeakland in a mo
<bertf> ok
<bertf> I'll call this meeting closed - everyone is welcome to stay around and chat of course.
<bertf> the channel is open 24/7 :)

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