[etoys-dev] Re: [squeak-dev] Re: Brand new Ubuntu experience with etoys

Bert Freudenberg bert at freudenbergs.de
Sun May 9 03:37:50 EDT 2010

On 07.05.2010, at 18:17, Jerome Peace wrote:
> Hi Bert,
>> I just changed the wording on the "missing plugin" page - is that better?
> Ouch no. See below.

Oops. Think I had a bad quote in there. Better now?

>> And indeed, the distro package should register the plugin. Maybe it doesn't, I don't know.
> The eToys blurb from their distro:
> eToys
> A media-rich model, simulation construction kit and authoring tool
>   Installed
> Squeak Etoys was inspired by LOGO, PARC-Smalltalk, Hypercard, and starLOGO. It is a media-rich authoring environment with a simple powerful scripted object model for many kinds of objects created by end-users that runs on many platforms, and is free and open source. It includes 2D and 3D graphics, images, text, particles, pres-entations, web-pages, videos, sound and MIDI, etc. It includes the ability to share desktops with other Etoy users in real-time, so many forms of immersive mentoring and play can be done over the Internet.
> This is the Squeak image developed for the OLPC project.
> Canonical does not provide updates for eToys. Some updates may be provided by the Ubuntu community.
> License: Unknown	Version: 3.0.1916+svn132-2ubuntu1 (etoys)
> =====
> Above is the info from the Ubuntu Software when You get to eToys.
> Note the version and the license info.

Strange, and totally outdated, yes. Etoys 4 was just accepted into Debian however. It should trickle down in time to Ubuntu. I'm not sure if the plugin works in there however - I think José mentioned it isn't even compiled anymore in the CMake-based Linux VM.

> After playing a bit I realized I needed to close firefox and try again.
> So I did.
> Close.
> then
> Firefox
> Squeakland>Showcase>All>Musical Chords>launch
> Which now sends me to the launch url.
> Which now just shows me a blank page.

Please try again. And let me know if the wording at least makes the intent clear.

> ======
> Anyway to reiterate,
> 1) First it should work out of the box and it does not. 
> Is the plugin present?
> What specifically is detected to determine the plugin is there or not on Ubuntu?

The script looks for a plugin that handles "application/x-squeak-source". 

You can see all plugins by going to "about:plugins" I think, it might also be in the help menu.

> 2) How should Squeakland help with the troubleshooting?
>  IMO a specific help should be provided for fixing the plugin problem.
>  It should mention the plugin problem.
>  And Either provide a remedy for just the plugin problem OR
>  direct the user to remove the Ubuntu provided installation. (I.E. go to where you got it and press REMOVE).
>  Then direct then how to reinstall the whole Magila from the Squeakland distribution.
>  Basicly do not leave a user with the need to make a choice they have not been given enough information to make.
>  Better still help make the choice for them.
> Yours in curiosity and service, --Jerome Peace

Well, it is really up to the distributions to package the software properly so it works. Also, if the distribution's packages do not work, you need to file a bug report with them. If nobody ever complains, it won't ever get fixed. Also, someone should start maintaining the Etoys and Squeak packages in Ubuntu. That is even happening in the Sugar context, but Sugar does not use the plugin.

Something that we at Squeakland need to do is provide proper source tarballs. These would have two purposes: for one, interested users could then install from source to get the latest independent of the packaging, second, it would make it easier for packagers to see how it is supposed to work.

We do not, however, have the resources currently at Squeakland to build distro packages. And even if we had, it would still be better to put that effort into fixing the packages in the distributions, rather than duplicating their work.

The only short-term solution I can see is directing Linux users to use Etoys-To-Go, which my changed blurb now does. Longer-term we need folks who build nice Etoys packages for Linux, Windows, Mac, and whatever else is out there. Help appreciated.

- Bert -

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