[etoys-dev] Copying Graphing tools and Speech Bubbles to Inbox

Ricardo Moran richi.moran at gmail.com
Mon Aug 16 18:07:50 EDT 2010

On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 10:08 AM, Bert Freudenberg <bert at freudenbergs.de>wrote:

> That looks awesome. Much more like Etoys and less like powerpoint, don't
> you think? :)

Thanks! Not being like powerpoint is a great compliment :)
I think Steve's ideas are the way to become much more like etoys and less
like powerpoint, even though that means I walked in the wrong path for some
time :)

> To make it even more Etoys-like, it would have to be "live". That is, as
> soon as you change the extent of a bar, its value would update. And vice
> versa, as soon as you change a value in a table, the bar would resize. No
> more "apply" button ... That would also mean the table should always show
> the same cursor as the graph, and you would not even need separate tiles for
> it.

Yes, that's also a good idea. I don't remember why I didn't do the table
"live" because it wouldn't be that much difficult I think.


> - Bert -
> On 16.08.2010, at 05:38, Ricardo Moran wrote:
> I think you're going to like this version :)
> http://tecnodacta.com.ar/gira/gsoc/NewGraphingTools.002.pr
> I still haven't done all the things you told me but I'm getting there. I
> finally removed the PointMorph and BarMorph classes. Everything works as
> before but you can use now any object as a Point or Bar, you just drop it on
> the graph and it gets added to the point/bar list (well... almost any
> object, I guess there might be problems with some complex morphs...)
> In the case of the bars, I used the object's height as its value and the
> object's name as its label, like you suggested. Also, the objects you add to
> a graph get a new viewer category for its specific slots. I haven't done the
> same for vectors yet but I will do it soon. As I'm thinking it, we will have
> three different graphs for bars, points, and vectors. That's the easiest way
> I found to distinguish each drop correctly.
> I also merged the PointTableMorph and BarTableMorph classes into
> TableOfValuesMorph, and I merged a few short viewer categories. What I
> haven't done yet is writing the balloon helps and using the holder
> vocabulary for the graphs but I wanted to show this at least, which I think
> it's much nicer than what I had before. Please comment if you think this is
> the right direction. Thanks!
> Richo
> On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 8:58 PM, Bert Freudenberg <bert at freudenbergs.de>wrote:
>> On 15.08.2010, at 00:37, Ricardo Moran wrote:
>> On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 4:15 PM, Bert Freudenberg <bert at freudenbergs.de>wrote:
>>> On 14.08.2010, at 19:00, Ricardo Moran wrote:
>>> > Hi, I've just uploaded a new commit to the inbox. It contains all the
>>> graphing tools and speech bubbles with most of Bert's suggestions fixed. I'm
>>> sorry for the big commit but I moved my older commits to treated because
>>> they were incomplete. Now the only commits needed to have these tools
>>> working properly are: Morphic-Richo.33 and Etoys-Richo.32
>>> > I hope they got accepted into Etoys. I'm excited :)
>>> I think they will :) I cleaned out the inbox today, merged all
>>> submissions, made minor modifications.
>>> I only did not merge Etoys-Richo.32 yet. It is much nicer than the
>>> previous version, but still not quite there IMHO:
>>> * the "remove" tile duplicates the existing "erase" tile
>>> * barColor duplicates color
>>> * a lot of graph tiles duplicate holder functionality
>>> * a "bar table" is something in a club ;) I think calling it "table of
>>> values" would be better
>>> * privateExtent:/privateCenter:/privatePosition: methods duplicate the
>>> existing extent:/center:/position: methods
>>> * there is still a reference to Vector (though only in an example method)
>>> * there already is another object called "Graph" in the object catalog
>>> * none of the new slots have a balloon help
>>> * some of the "plot - ..." categories are quite short, they should be
>>> merged
>>> * apply, max, min, remove, are all a bit short. There is already
>>> minVal/maxVal and getMinVal/getMaxVal for example which you could reuse
>>> I think the apparent complexity could be simplified when adopting more of
>>> the holder vocabulary. Instead of "index" call it "cursor". "point x" would
>>> be "x value at cursor" or so. Etc.
>> Most of these can be fixed easily. Specially the terminology ones (I
>> didn't know about the "bar table", otherwise I would have used other
>> term :P)
>>> Ideally, the graph would just *be* a holder/playfield. E.g. in a bar
>>> graph, the user might just put plain rectangles or sketches or whatever.
>>> Instead of extra labels, use the rectangle's name. The value would simply be
>>> calculated from the object's width and the bar scale factor (just like you
>>> did for points, which can be moved freely - cool). Same for xy graphs - the
>>> points could be *any* object in a playfield. And possibly even points and
>>> vectors could be unified - a point would just be a vector of length 0? That
>>> might be not the best idea, I don't know. How much more time do you have in
>>> your project?
>> So adding a bar/point/vector would be just dropping an object (any object)
>> into the graph... I like it, I think it's possibly a good idea (if we manage
>> to figure out a nice way of unifying vectors and points... maybe different
>> graphs for each?), but it's quite different from what I currently have and
>> I'm not sure I'll be able to make it in time for this release. Since this
>> seems like a big change I think adding these tools to the Etoys release may
>> not be such a good idea. Maybe we should wait to hear the opinion of the
>> educators about this change and if they like it, work on this for the next
>> release.
>> The GSoC deadline is this monday and I didn't even finish the seven items
>> in my proposal. I will still work on this after gsoc is over but I worked
>> very little in the PaintBox and I haven't even touched the EtoyMaker. That's
>> a bummer...
>>> I have no serious complaints about the bubble implementation (except for
>>> the empty help balloons on the tiles), but you submitted both together so I
>>> could not merge them yet.
>> I'll write the balloon help and I'll push the bubbles to Etoys myself, if
>> that's ok with you.
>> Certainly.
>>  - Bert -
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