[etoys-dev] Copying Graphing tools and Speech Bubbles to Inbox

Steve Thomas sthomas1 at gosargon.com
Sun Aug 15 08:17:34 EDT 2010

On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 6:37 PM, Ricardo Moran <richi.moran at gmail.com>wrote:

> On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 4:15 PM, Bert Freudenberg <bert at freudenbergs.de>wrote:
>> Ideally, the graph would just *be* a holder/playfield. E.g. in a bar
>> graph, the user might just put plain rectangles or sketches or whatever.
>> Instead of extra labels, use the rectangle's name. The value would simply be
>> calculated from the object's width and the bar scale factor (just like you
>> did for points, which can be moved freely - cool). Same for xy graphs - the
>> points could be *any* object in a playfield. And possibly even points and
>> vectors could be unified - a point would just be a vector of length 0? That
>> might be not the best idea, I don't know. How much more time do you have in
>> your project?
> So adding a bar/point/vector would be just dropping an object (any object)
> into the graph... I like it, I think it's possibly a good idea (if we manage
> to figure out a nice way of unifying vectors and points... maybe different
> graphs for each?), but it's quite different from what I currently have and
> I'm not sure I'll be able to make it in time for this release. Since this
> seems like a big change I think adding these tools to the Etoys release may
> not be such a good idea. Maybe we should wait to hear the opinion of the
> educators about this change and if they like it, work on this for the next
> release.

I really like the idea of a graph as a holder/playfield.  It makes sense and
it fits existing mental models used in working with Etoys. To my overly
simplistic way of thinking a graph is basically:

   - a playfield with the grid visible (but not turned on)
   - A pair of number lines (hint, hint, nudge, nudge, wink, wink ;)
   - and scaling of X and Y

I think the point table and spreadsheet should also "be" a holder/playfield.
There are issues with holder, is the way it does auto-line-layout and
"resize to fit" SQ-731 <http://tracker.squeakland.org/browse/SQ-731> and
SQ-628 <http://tracker.squeakland.org/browse/SQ-628> which if corrected
along the lines of SQ-730 <http://tracker.squeakland.org/browse/SQ-730> would
in my opinion make it a lot easier to use a holder for spreadsheets, tables,
rows and columns.  Basically providing the ability to specify a fixed row
and column width's and the ability to add/delete a row and column I think
would do it.

As much as I would love having the graph in the next release I think it
would be better to wait until it is more like a playfield/holder. Until
then, I can do my own graph the only challenge I have is making the number
line, in particular lining up labels is a pain, as the x,y position of text
varies and is not in the center of the text.

> The GSoC deadline is this monday and I didn't even finish the seven items
> in my proposal. I will still work on this after gsoc is over but I worked
> very little in the PaintBox and I haven't even touched the EtoyMaker. That's
> a bummer...

In the Northern Hemisphere (where everything is right side up ;) we have a
thing called "Indian Summer" which is an expression given to a period of
sunny, warm weather in autumn </wiki/Autumn> in the Northern
typically in late October or early November.  So you should have plenty of
time ;)

Thanks for all your efforts they are appreciated and will be used.

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