[etoys-dev] Re: repeat-tile

Bert Freudenberg bert at freudenbergs.de
Fri Apr 9 03:27:47 EDT 2010

On 08.04.2010, at 23:08, Steve Thomas wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 4:23 PM, karl ramberg <karlramberg at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 7:02 PM, Bert Freudenberg <bert at freudenbergs.de> wrote:
> > On 08.04.2010, at 18:52, K. K. Subramaniam wrote:
> >>
> >> On Thursday 08 April 2010 02:47:13 pm Bert Freudenberg wrote:
> >>> In fact, turtle graphics might be the one intrinsically useful application
> >>> of the repeat tile. If that is so, how about moving it to the pen
> >>> category?
> >> Repeat is convenient outside of pen drawing.
> >
> > Do you have an example?
> >
> >> Sure, one can write scripts
> >> without it but repetition is intuitive operation for kids and dropping it
> >> would be a pity.
> >
> > No, it usually does not do what it intuitively should do.
> >
> >> How about extending "do:" to "do:times:" in scripting category?
> >
> > In theory that would be a possibility. However, tiles can only have one argument. There is only a single exception and that tile is special-cased in a gazillion places.
> >
> > - Bert -
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > etoys-dev at squeakland.org
> > http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/etoys-dev
> >
> Could we not add a tick feature so you could ask a script to tick 10
> times for example ?
> I have not looked at how much special cases that touches ;-)
> Karl
> But the # of ticks (and the tick rate) are not "script settable" to the best of my knowledge, although this would be nice.  
> Kids may want to explore different repeat values where turn is set to 360/# repeats.
> Also, I have a project where kids have to guess a pattern (the pattern is generated from a set of 2-n random objects selected from a holder.  The I need to check that pattern and have been using the Repeat Tile to check my pattern, setting the Repeat to the # of items in the pattern's Holder (See attached project, its a work in progress, but should demonstrate what I am trying to do).
> Seems like the main problem was that folks were confused about the way Repeat works, is this a bad thing?  Don't get me wrong, but a little cognitive dissonance is good.  If it hadn't been for this discussion, I never would have thought as much about the Etoys execution semantics.  What we need is better educational materials, help and tutorials.

The thing is that not even the most proficient Etoys users (in contrast to its creators) seem to "get it". I'm all for educating people but it's a fact that the repeat tile is an odd one.

Now it's out there we can't take it back, but maybe putting it in the pen category gets people thinking "why the heck did they put this here?"

> Ideally for each tile instead of just a simple balloon help, there could be a link to an Etoys Quick Guides Page, that can explain each tiles use in more detail along with examples and suggested uses. Perhaps even an Event Theater demonstration of a particular tiles use and mis-use.

Yes, good idea. Just ASMOP ;)

> Stephen
> <Beep Beep Vroom Vroom.013.pr>

Please do not send megabytes of attachments to the list. We're a global community, and not everyone has broadband.

Same for list moderators: please do not let these overly large messages through.

- Bert -

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