[etoys-dev] Suggestion to add in the download page

Hilaire Fernandes hilaire.fernandes at edu.ge.ch
Tue Oct 27 15:47:09 EDT 2009

So in my sentence, change 'edited from a text editor' by 'viewed from
a text editor', I agree 'edited' induce false hope of being able to
modify the code from a text editor, which effectively is not operable
for .sources and the .changes.
Anyway  some people make a strong point at been able to view from a
simple text editor. I know all the arguments you wrote, that's not the
point. I am taking the point of view of people without knowledge with
Smalltalk and I am trying to provide them an easier curve to
understand how is arranged the source code architecture in Smalltalk.


2009/10/27 Bert Freudenberg <bert at freudenbergs.de>:
> On 27.10.2009, at 13:28, Hilaire Fernandes wrote:
>> I agree, but many free software activists want to be able to view the
>> source code with a simple code text editor. This is what developer
>> without knowledge about Smalltalk ask me. Any way this is just an
>> option to view the source code and I don't see how it can hurt.
>> Hilaire
> Here is how it would hurt:
> By suggesting you can edit sources and changes with any text editor you are
> making false promises. In this regard Smalltalk is simply different from
> about any other programming system. People unfamiliar with Smalltalk would
> assume that editing these files would allow them to change Etoys, because
> that's how development usually works. But not in Squeak.
> On the contrary, even if you did not have these files, you could still view
> and change Etoys source code perfectly fine. The only thing you would miss
> is comments and names of temporary variables. This illustrates that the
> primary artifact is the image, not the text chunks stored in the sources and
> changes files.
> I don't see why you would want to put a misleading statement like "These
> files can be edited from any text editor" on the download page. Yes, you
> could also edit an MP3 audio file in any text editor, which is literally
> true, but deceiving.
> I understand that you want to appeal to the "free software activists" who
> don't know how Smalltalk development works. But there is no need to
> misrepresent the truth. Etoys is Free software even to the letter of the
> FSF's definition. We do not need to resort to propaganda.
> - Bert -
>> 2009/10/27 Bert Freudenberg <bert at freudenbergs.de>:
>>> On 27.10.2009, at 03:51, Hilaire Fernandes wrote:
>>>> 2009/10/26 Bert Freudenberg <bert at freudenbergs.de>:
>>>>> It is wrong to write "These files can be edited from any text editor"
>>>>> because this does not affect the system except for breaking source
>>>>> browsing.
>>>> No, it is not wrong from the access to source code dude point of view.
>>> There is a huge difference between editing and viewing.
>>> To be considered Free Software you need to be able not only to study a
>>> program, but to be able to change its behavior. That's GNU's software
>>> freedom #1:
>>> http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html
>>> Editing the sources or changes file in any text editor does not change
>>> Etoys' behavior.
>>> - Bert -
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